Groomie
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A Way to Stop StallingI came up with this idea while we were playing the 3 on 3 game we set up. The main concern to me with our last tournament was balancing giving players enough time to play their turns with preventing someone from stalling out.
I think that the best way to encourage quick play is to give points for each turn played. The points would look something like this:
Win: 20 points
Draw: 10 points
Loss: 5 points
Each turn you complete gives you a bonus point. If no victory points are awarded, you don't get any bonus points.
That means the more turns you play, the more points you get, even if you lose.
Example #1:
Steve Vs. Bill
Steve wins in 6 turns, both players played the same number of turns (6)
Steve gets 26 points, Bill gets 11 points.
Example #2:
Chris Vs. Rob
Rob wins in 5 turns, but Chris went first and Rob only got 4 turns in.
Rob gets 24 points, Chris gets 10 points.
The idea here is to mitigate stalling. Stalling is never going to stop being an issue, but this format seems to encourage play.
I need your feedback on this to make sure I haven't missed anything. I put in the no bonus points on draws to stop player collusion. I didn't want to players to stand there without moving and get infinite points. Maybe removing Draws completely might work better. That would encourage people to play harder. Adding VPs to the points might also be good. What do you guys think?
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Kaufmann
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you seem to be jumping the gun on a non existent problem.....to my knowledge there was no stalling the tournament. this may be a problem in other places but the people who play warmachine/hordes at CHG are pretty laid back.
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Groomie
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I wouldn't say that I am jumping the gun. I didn't say that anyone was stalling at the most recent tournament. When I was setting up the tournament, I struggled with ways to encourage people to play quickly.
In the past, at CHG tournaments in fact, there has been cases of stalling. In this particular tournament, there was at least one case where a player would have won if he did stall. He didn't, but that isn't the point. I was looking for a way to reward faster play over slower play. Late game can very easily become bogged down because every single activation becomes more and more important. I want to create a mechanic at the tournament level that discourages slow playing an opponent.
I was looking for feedback on my idea, what do you think about it?
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vegeta7913
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The problem with VP's based on number of rounds played is that it can hurt a player's standing in the overall tournament thru no fault of their own. Say I'm playing my Kraye list, and I get a Turrn 1 caster kill thru my amazing dice rolling skills. Match ends and i get the 20 points for the win, and 1 point for the turn. 21points. Say, joe smith over on the next table takes the entire round to win (no caster kill) and he got in 6 turns. Again, he gets 20 points for the win, but he gets an extra 6 points for taking longer to defeat his opponent. 26 points to joe smith. So, tourneyment wise, because his game took longer, he takes the lead in the tourney. In actuality, I think this rule would inspire quicker play. People will play more quickly, trying to get more and more turns in, but not trying to obtain an outright victory. Why go for the kill, when you can make 'em bleed? Rather, you would get an hour and a half match of opponents trying to get that 1 VP they need to win and then fading into the woods. Instead of the turtle-up stall, you get the hit and run stall; with armies nipping at each, not willing to fully commit while there are free, turn based points to be had.
If you think stalling is that big of a problem, buy some chess clocks or timers and put a time limit on the turn for each side. Of course, with a time limit, it will move some people out of their comfort zone, but, in my opinion, it is the best way to avoid people from stalling. The down side to timers is that they favor smaller army lists. If you have a giant cryx build w/a ton of dudes, you're going to have a tough time getting everything done in ten minutes. Also, you'd have to be able to pause the timers for rules questions etc.
Or, on the flip side. you get rid of the overall time limit and cap it at a turn limit. Say, 5 turns. The problem with that is you'll need to start early in the morning. Or maybe a combination of both, say, an hour and half time limit for the match, or 5 turns each.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Groomie
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Thanks, Drew. I'll work on this further.
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Tweak
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A way to stop stallingHonestly unless a core group of people feel that stalling is an issue I would leave it alone. I have a few friends who play and they take forever, but they are not stalling to win or anything. They just tend to be meticulous with their activations and plan everything out step by step slowly. When I play them I understand this and realize it’s the play style not being a pain. If you add in a clock or points for time or points for more games, then you accidentally punish players who are just tactically meticulous about their turn and promote perhaps more abrupt playing where friendliness and good humor go out the window for tourney points. Not exactly the environment I would want for an event. If anything perhaps just a round time limit, like an hour or something has always seemed to work fine, if you finish earlier you just chill and play games for fun while the round of the tourney finishes up. Just my two cents that’s all.
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vegeta7913
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A well thought out and deliberate style of play is well and good when playing between friends and in casual games. However, the issue is in a tournament, where there is a finite amount of time available for play. I believe truly that if you're playing in a tourney, there needs to be something that promotes a quicker turn. I do understand that putting a time limit on a turn could limit a person's enjoyment of the game, but at the same time, it is also no fun for me to sit for 20 minutes while someone bounces back and forth trying to come up with a strategy. And in casual play, i have no problem with people taking their time, learning rules or trying out different things. That's why you play casual games. But a tournament is different from casual play and the same rules shouldn't apply. My 2 cents.
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kael
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SimpleTo address the first turn win "penalty", give a bonus for completing the game BEFORE time is called. After all, the point is to complete the game before time, not just get as many turns as possible.
Should probably be points to both players.
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